Having A Talk With An Atheist

The following is a conversation I had with an atheist. I think he asked some really good questions, and I pray that God might be pleased to use what I say to bring about change in him. My comments are in red type.

“True, I failed to mention that according to some Christian denominations you are born guilty, and God will sentence you to an eternity of torture because someone made a decision you had no control over - thousands of years before you were born.”


All Christians – that is people who believe in the bible – understands that all are born sinners and therefore guilty through Adam. Why do you think we talk so much about a “Savior?” Also, consider Romans 5. It talks about our guilt in Adam.

“Just curious, do you think soaking someone in gasoline and lighting them on fire is "just" punishment for cheating on you?”

You ask a question like that because you're seeing things from a man-centered position, rather than a God-centered position. I can understand that, I used to see things like you before God saved me. Sinners have the “luxury” of seeing things from a finite and fallible position, therefore we have the audacity to ask questions like the one you asked. Before I answer this question however, I'd first like to challenge you to consider things from the other side, namely from a God-centered vantage point. This will be a difficult, but beneficial exercise for you. Answer me this question: Why would a Holy God save anyone? Let me elaborate so that you might get a sense of the gravity of my question. Imagine a God so holy that the most minute of sin is of infinite offense. Now, this God is self-sufficient and fully satisfied within Himself. In other words, he doesn't at all need us, and is fully happy within himself. Why would this God save people like me (or you, providing that you repent and trust in his means of salvation)? If you can answer this question, I'll answer yours.

“What would someone need to do to offend YOU to the point that YOU would want them to be burnt alive?”

I remember watching the T.V. Show 20/20 one time and crying. On the show, they showed these rich doctors from the United States going down to a place in Asia where they could buy sex slaves. One of the sex slaves was an 8 year old girl. They showed the girl – she was so little – and this man was about to rape her! I remember crying and wishing I could somehow save those kids (I was a kid myself at the time). I would have done anything to save those kids – even burn those wicked men with whatever – fire, larva, acid – whatever! Now I have to be honest here. I used that example for a reason, and that reason is to demonstrate this point: In the same way you would agree with me that it is absolutely wicked to rape little kids, because you see it as extremely evil, God is so holy that he sees your lies as equally heinous. This is the God you're contending against, bro.

“In other words, God is infinitely shallow.”

God would be shallow if he were like us. Take me for example. Growing up I was always the arrogant kid. I tired to be cool in everything I could do because I liked the attention. Sometimes I got it, other times I didn't. But you know what? No one but me got anything out of it. If, however, I was all glorious and all awe-inspiring, and all pleasurable with infinite diverse excellencies, then – and only then – would anyone else get something out of watching me show off by doing things for my own glory. But again Shawn, I'm not. You know who's like that though? God. God is infinitely beautiful and infinitely wonderful and infinitely sublime and infinitely everything that would make you happy. Therefore, Shawn, your Creator God is being LOVING towards you, when he does things for his own glory. In this way, God gets all the glory and the people whom he made for his glory, gets all the joy. This is the best of both worlds!

“Um, right... I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that there is no evidence supporting his existence. And I couldn't possibly have issues with the internal contradictions in the Bible, or the talking animals, magic fruit, etc. I MUST be ignoring the "obvious truth" of it all because there is something God tells me not to do which is so enjoyable that I'm willing to risk burning in Hell rather than obey the annoying rule.”

Exactly! Isn't sin illogical?

“Do you realize what "Holy" means?”

Holy means “set apart.” Scripture elaborates on this important attribute of God. For example, God's holiness means that “there is no darkness in him at all” (1 Jn 1:5), and that “God is righteous in all of his ways,” (Psa 145:17). This is what I and all Christians, as well as the scriptures, mean by God being holy.

I don't care if a fictional character thinks I'm evil because I was born.

You're not only evil because you were born so, but you are evil because of your deeds. Shawn, you know this to be true...I know you do. We all hear the saying, “no one is perfect.” Well, Jesus takes it a bit further because he says that “no one but God is good.” Good means moral excellence. That's not me or anyone else I know. Is that you, Shawn? Seriously dude, saying that God doesn't exist isn't going to alleviate the problem. You exist under the wrath of a Holy God. At any moment he can say “enough” and you'll cower before Him, “ready” to be judged. You don't want that, Shawn! I don't want that for you!!

“I hate God as much as I hate Santa Claus or Darth Vader.”

You hate God more because he exist and those other guys don't. Moreover, even if Santa existed, you'd more likely serve him, or adhere to any other religion, because they won't be exclusive as Christ. Christ is strict and not political correct. He will call you evil for your thoughts, and judge you because of them. He'll say things like, “Shawn you are wicked for your thoughts of anger and lust,” and liken them to murder and adultery. You'll say things like, “they're just thoughts” and, “I didn't act upon them, how in the world can I keep your commandments?” For that reason, you'll think him extreme and a kill joy. You'll say with the men of his day...”I will not have this man rule over me!”

I've been married for 10 years, I have have never gone "clubbing" or made it a goal to get laid by as many women as I could. I live my life honestly, not because a God told me too, but because I enjoy the company of others. Someone who lies, steals, cheats, or otherwise abuses others won't have many friends.

Believe it or not, other than the clubbing and girl stuff, I was actually the “good” kid. Everyone considered me the “goodie to-shoes” kid. And you know what? I was, compared to some of the people I knew growing up. But you see, Shawn...I am not to compare myself to man, but to God's commandments and the image of the only one to keep them all – namely Christ. Compared to Him, you and I make Adolf Hitler look like a mischievous school girl. It is so hard for moral people to see their need for God's forgiveness, Shawn. For this reason, I cannot be angry at you. I know for a fact bro, if it weren't for God's grace in my life, I'd be like you. Thanks be to God, however, that after coming face-to-face with His laws and His Christ, I was able to see what good really is.

In seeing that, I was able to see my need for a Savior. In juxtaposition to Christ, my goodness at its zenith, combined with the goodness of 100 Mother Teresa's goodness, all at their zenith, is as wicked when compared to the absolute holiness of Jesus Christ. He never sinned. He never even had a sinful thought. All of His good works were first done to the glory of God, and secondly to the benefit of man. What kind of perfection is this? And you would risk betting your eternal soul on the assumption that you are a good person. I'll be praying for you!

“You still haven't explained what action you think I'm so attached to that I would rather go to Hell than obey God's law forbidding it.”

I did. I said that you want to remain autonomous. You want to be your own god. What I mean is that you want to do what you want to do without God telling you what to do and what not to do. You want this so bad that you'd go to hell; shaking your fist in God's face all the way (until you actually get there, of course). You see, hell doesn't scare you now. You have yet to acquire a fear of God because you do not know Him or his ways. Truth be told, if you continue in your pride, you'll never have a fear of God until it's too late. And to make things worse, when you “stand” (or cower in absolute terror) before God, you'll have no excuse. You'll be made silent, as all of your motives are revealed to you by the One who knows everything about you – even your “secret” thoughts.

“By the way - Someone who says we are born with knowledge of good and evil apparently doesn't have children, or hasn't had a young child in a very long time. Our concepts of right are wrong are things which we learn from our parents... not something we're born with. Study psychology - or have a baby.”

I didn't do so well with psychology in college (I think it was because I couldn't understand my professor – his accent made it impossible to hear him). Nevertheless, I guess you have something like a point? Still, if we get our knowledge of right and wrong (good and evil) from our parents, who taught them? And who taught their parents, and their parents parents, all the way back to the first parents?

Good talk to you again...you're a pretty cool guy!


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